Rick's 3000 x 2000 Layout - A work in Progess

[rickbotha]

So I have a few ideas for what I want to do, but for now, here is the basic idea. I'll upload a few extra images when I get to the landscaping.



What do you guys think? Any issues you foresee?

[capeklr]

Hi Rick,
first question, do you run 2 rail DC or 3 AC?
If 2 rail DC you have 2 triangle's in your plan, these are great for turn a train, but will cause a short.

[rickbotha]

Ach... My inexperience shows 

I see what I did there.

I will be running DC, so there will most definately be a short with the two triangles. My bad.

What if I were to put an auto reversing section in there that would change the polarity when the short is detected; I would insolate the whole centre loop section from the rest of the track?

Thanks for the input

[capeklr]

 
That's what we have this forum for.
You can use triangles, it just needs some electronics to make it work.
I made a red circle around a part which makes no sense at all.
To short for passing sidings, so what where you planning on doing here.
Blue circle, try and smooth out the S bend.

[rickbotha]

Aah, thanks.

The comments help a lot, I will do some updates and do another post

Thanks.

[capeklr]

Enjoy the planning.
I won't be online for the next four days. But post up the others will ad their comments.

[Freightcars]

Hi Rick,

Just a couple of comments:

• I agree with Jörg's comments.  The S-bend can lead to problems and the passing sidings are short
• Look at accessibility.  I'm assuming that you only access the layout from the four sides.  Is this correct?  The points in the middle (just above the S-bend) may be difficult to reach in order to throw them.
• At the top right of your diagram it looks like there is a track that passes over the point (or turnout).  Will you be able to get enough height for clearance?  Be careful of having an excessive gradients.  Modeling HO you would need at least 70 or 80mm clearance.
• What is the radius of the curve into the turntable?  It looks like it could be very tight.  Ideally I'd say use a 22 inch radius (558.8mm) but at an absolute push 18 inch radius (457.2mm) The types and makes of locos would dictate what your required minimum should be.
• I'm not sure if auto reversing is possible in DC.  I may stand corrected.  This is something that is possible with DCC.  Traditionally with DC you need to bring the train to a stop, change the polarity and then you can continue. 

Hope this helps,

Niel
[/list]

[BigEd]

Rick, I have to point out a few things too:

1. Be mindful to want to put too much track into your layout - they are called spaghetti layouts for a reason.
2. Walk-arounds are a pain - the problem ALWAYS happens the furthest point from you.
3. A point like the one at the bottom left is a waste - they are expensive and that one wont accomplish much.
4. Up and overs can be a pain. If you make your gradient more than 2-3% you are going to be frustrated. A good solution is to cookie cut and move both up and down.

Just a few things I thought of. Swing by Saturday and we can have a bit of a chin wag.

[Steve Smith]

Hi Rick,

Before you get too carried away on the design, I suggest you step back and do a "givens & druthers" evaluation.

- Scale ?  (I ASSume HO ?)
- Do you want to model freelance or prototype ?
- If prototype, which locale/era ?   
- What type of equipment do you want to run ?   This can influence the standards you choose. 
- Do you want to operate or do continuous running ?
- Is your interest in running trains or building the layout ?
- Will it be a solo project ?

What brand of track do you plan to use ?   Be careful here as there are different codes (track height) and turnout/point radii which you have to contend with.   It is better to choose one brand and stick with it.

Ed cautioned about the bowl of spagetti approach.   Too much track complexity can be a maintenance nightmare.   Better to go for a "less is more approach", which will allow a higher ratio of scenery to track.

Once the questions above are answered, the track plan can be designed to address the needs/wants identified.

Do not only consider the rectangular island option, it may be possible to design an upside down U shaped walk-in layout.

Good luck, its a fun journey,
Steve

[BigEd]

Good points. Unfortunately, school fees are expensive. Especially with this hobby.

Then again, it could explain why I have not had a lot of layout in my life either Too much contemplating...

[rickbotha]

Hi Rick,

Just a couple of comments:

• I agree with Jörg's comments.  The S-bend can lead to problems and the passing sidings are short
• Look at accessibility.  I'm assuming that you only access the layout from the four sides.  Is this correct?  The points in the middle (just above the S-bend) may be difficult to reach in order to throw them.
• At the top right of your diagram it looks like there is a track that passes over the point (or turnout).  Will you be able to get enough height for clearance?  Be careful of having an excessive gradients.  Modeling HO you would need at least 70 or 80mm clearance.
• What is the radius of the curve into the turntable?  It looks like it could be very tight.  Ideally I'd say use a 22 inch radius (558.8mm) but at an absolute push 18 inch radius (457.2mm) The types and makes of locos would dictate what your required minimum should be.
• I'm not sure if auto reversing is possible in DC.  I may stand corrected.  This is something that is possible with DCC.  Traditionally with DC you need to bring the train to a stop, change the polarity and then you can continue. 

Hope this helps,

Niel
[/list]

Thanks for the inputs Niel, so many things that I haven't considered yet.

You are correct in saying that access would only be from the four sides. I was, though, thinking of putting remote switches on those points.

With regards to the clearance under the track, I still have to get to that, and had hoped it had enough of a run up to have a gradual gradient. I'm most likely going to start from scratch after everyones comments; talk about a great learning curve

I will also check into the curve radii that I use, this is most likely less than required, so I would need to change it.

To clarfiy, I will be using DCC, answering Jorg's question I was stating that it was DC vs 3 rail AC; but i understand the cause of the confusion. Thanks, though.

I appreciate the comments :

Regards,

Rick

[rickbotha]

Rick, I have to point out a few things too:

1. Be mindful to want to put too much track into your layout - they are called spaghetti layouts for a reason.
2. Walk-arounds are a pain - the problem ALWAYS happens the furthest point from you.
3. A point like the one at the bottom left is a waste - they are expensive and that one wont accomplish much.
4. Up and overs can be a pain. If you make your gradient more than 2-3% you are going to be frustrated. A good solution is to cookie cut and move both up and down.

Just a few things I thought of. Swing by Saturday and we can have a bit of a chin wag.

Thanks BigEd,

I guess I may be over ambitious, getting carried away with the software is really easy. I have heard the issues with walkarounds, I guess that I ignored the,, but at my peril. I will make some drastic changes.

I think the reason I put the point at the bottom left was to complicate the operation of the track, but unneccesarily so.

I was planning to move both up and down to get the correct gradients. I will plan this properly in my next iteration,

Thanks for the help

[rickbotha]

Hi Rick,

Before you get too carried away on the design, I suggest you step back and do a "givens & druthers" evaluation.

- Scale ?  (I ASSume HO ?)
- Do you want to model freelance or prototype ?
- If prototype, which locale/era ?   
- What type of equipment do you want to run ?   This can influence the standards you choose. 
- Do you want to operate or do continuous running ?
- Is your interest in running trains or building the layout ?
- Will it be a solo project ?

What brand of track do you plan to use ?   Be careful here as there are different codes (track height) and turnout/point radii which you have to contend with.   It is better to choose one brand and stick with it.

Ed cautioned about the bowl of spagetti approach.   Too much track complexity can be a maintenance nightmare.   Better to go for a "less is more approach", which will allow a higher ratio of scenery to track.

Once the questions above are answered, the track plan can be designed to address the needs/wants identified.

Do not only consider the rectangular island option, it may be possible to design an upside down U shaped walk-in layout.

Good luck, its a fun journey,
Steve

Hey Steve,

Thanks for the input. I've learnt more today than in the last 15 years   

To answer your questions, for my benefit:
- Scale ?  HO
- Do you want to model freelance or prototype ? I would like to prototype, but this layout was not such a layout.
- If prototype, which locale/era ?   I want to do an industrial layout that exists in Somerset West. The old Somchem (now Rheinmetall) has loads of track.
- What type of equipment do you want to run ?   This can influence the standards you choose. I will be using DCC, not 3 rail AC, but haven't settled on a brand yet. Haven't bought a set yet, and it will most likely be one of the last things I do due to cost.
- Do you want to operate or do continuous running ? I am interested in both, but for now would like to operate.
- Is your interest in running trains or building the layout ? My interest is in both.
- Will it be a solo project ? I'll be doing it with my wife, who will help out with lots of the arty bits.

At the moment I have been playing around with Atlas' track, but now that you ask, I haven't fully considered what the easiest, and most pocket friendly brand in South Africa is? What would you suggest, and from where should I get it?

Thanks for the questions, even in typing this reply I have a better idea of what I want to achieve.

Regards,

[rickbotha]

Thanks for all the comments and input.

My conclusion, start from scratch and don't get carried away with the software. Once I've decided/been advised on the best track brand to use, I will start again.

My next layout will be here posted again

[BigEd]